Joined: 18 Dec 2006 Posts: 1140
OK fishing guides license scam? I emailed a friend/client of mine that is a house representative and asked him if there was any way to overturn this guide license deal. He said there's nothing in the hopper to license guides in oklahoma as of yet and I said we're already having to buy license and this year a half million in liability insurance. He said the guy he rooms with while the house is in session is the Oklahoma House Wildlife Comity Chairman and he didn't know anything about this either. He also said that he's against any new licensing and insurance requirements because it's usually done in the name of public safety and doesn't do anything but cost the taxpayer's money. I explained to him how it all came about and about the texoma guide that killed that dude and the coast guard reaction then the guides on texoma hiring a lobbyist to get this put into place. he said again that this was all new to him and his roommate but he's going to check into it and get back to me on it tomorrow.
Looks like they got all this done without even having the sentate and house vote on it after all through some kind of backdoor shady maneuvering because it's strange that these two house reps had no clue that they'd passed a new law requiring fishing guides to be licensed.
I also went on to allow that this has put most guides out of business except for the big money guides down in texoma because there's a whole bunch of guides that won't be able to come up with these insurance premiums, especially since the economy has crashed. plus having to jump through a bunch of rediculous hoops.
we got hosed somehow but I'll know more tomorrow about how we actually got hosed ... I may have contacted the one person that may be able to bring up an amendment that might just make this a specific rule for texoma or may get it overturned completely ... don't know for sure though.
Wed Dec 02, 2009 6:25 pm
Joined: 18 Dec 2006 Posts: 1140
I talked to Rep. Martin on the phone while ago And told me that he found out what had happened on this bill. When they first voted on it or when it first went through the house it was a bill about protecting hunting farms against poachers and had absolutely nothing to do with a fishing guide licences ... then while it was in the senate totally dumped all that stuff about the poaching issue and turned into the new fishing guide license and what happened was they're supposed to inform them of changes that were made but didn't on this one so they never even knew the changes had been made when they voted on it. Rep. Steve Martin said that he's going to get to work on this and see if he can't just limit this regulation to texoma and if he can't then he's going to write a bill to try to totally kill it.
The reason he's against this, now that it's been brought to his attention, is because this is how people get the american dream stripped from them in the name of public safety. He said if it's opposed because they want to keep the public safe then he's going to say then lets stop all hunting, fishing and swimming in back yard pools without insurance to cover them, to keep everyone safe. He meant that there's a certain risk when you just step out your door and people accept the responsibilty to their own safety when they do any activities.
He also said it was a good thing in a way since it was to stop the coast guard from doing what they were going to do but it wasn't the Senate's intent to take away people's ability to guide like the part timers and marginal guide businesses. The bad thing is that he said he can't get anything accomplished until around the May session. Until he can get something done ya still have to get the insurance and all that other stupid stuff.
So we did get this forced on us through the back door, figuratively and literally, one might say. seems like there should be a rule that they should be notified when there's a bill re-written like that but he said they're just supposed to. Like it was just an agreed upon thing instead of a written rule. Sure looks like a lot of bad things can happen in the legislature if they don't HAVE TO inform the ones that are voting a bill through that it was totally rewritten. that right there just burns my buttocks
Thu Dec 03, 2009 1:50 pm
Joined: 13 Jul 2008 Posts: 77 Location: Creek, okfuskee, McIntosh County, depends on what time of the year.
Well, you got me all riled up with that "lets just stop all that hunting and fishing, but I don't do it in my back yard pool so I guess I am OK.
Just messing with ya Tiny.
Thu Dec 03, 2009 9:28 pm
Joined: 18 Dec 2006 Posts: 1140
it was sarcasm in retrospect to the rediculous parameters placed on guides just because of one stupid guide that got someone killed down on texoma. the response ended up putting lots of guides out of bidness with their rediculous minimum liabilty of a half million ... now what retard thinks that a half million is even necessary when there's only been one accident in the last few years or several years where someone got killed while out with a fishing guide.
Fri Dec 04, 2009 12:05 am
Joined: 19 Dec 2006 Posts: 247 Location: central oklahoma
how'd they get killed? what happened?
they pulled the same crap on me. i had to have liability insurance to take court appointed criminal cases, but under the law the state has sovereign immunity anyway! forced insurance when there is no legal recovery; what a brilliant idea. it's called "bureacratic fever." people get certain (bad) knee-jerk ways of doing things, when in fact they have never made a living doing the very thing they are regulating.
the nastier it is, the better i like it! i do draw the line at lightning, tornados, and water over the bow......
Mon Dec 07, 2009 2:12 pm
Joined: 18 Dec 2006 Posts: 1140
you can do a search "death on texoma" and it should come up ... a guide took clients out when he shouldn't have ... near 35 mph winds and when he was heading into a cove the boat flipped and they were about 100 yds from shore ... they all made it to shore but one of them dipped under the water right at the shoreline and I guess he engulfed a big gasp of water and he instantly drowned ... they tried to administer cpr but it didn't work ... the guy's family hired an attorney which started suing everyone he could think of including the coast guard ... the coast guard's reaction was to send letters to the texoma guides and deeming texoma as navigable waterway and was going to start writing tickets to all the guides that didn't have the USCG 6pack license so the texoma guides got together and hired a lobbyist and somehow he got shultz to rewrite his poaching bill and didn't inform anyone of the changes and they voted on it thinking it was a bill to help agains poaching on those game farms but in fact it had been totally rewritten into a fishing guide license bill then they handed it off as an emergency law and told odwc to write up the rules ... when I asked an ODWC person who wrote these goofy rules he pointed the finger back at the senate and house but when the state rep friend of mine called the odwc wildlife director and told him he was going to introduce a bill making this license specific to just texoma the wildlife director asked him not to and asked him to work with the ODWC to perhaps make it easier for the guides to get the license. I'm not sure why but ODWC officials act like they've got a big steak in this deal but they don't even have the manpower to enforce the current game laws too well. people keep getting away with selling fish and all sorts of other things that shouldn't be tolerated. they just don't need another law on the books but they are adament about keeping it statewide ... I'm guessing because if they catch a person guiding without a license the fine is $1,000 ... that might be one of the reasons they want to keep it statewide ... not sure ... won't know for sure until we get to talk directly to the ODWC director.
when I told representative martin or asked him if there was anything going on that might be trying to kill this guide license ... he didn't know what I was talking about and his roommate that rooms with him while they're in session is the House Wildlife Commity Chairman and he hadn't heard anything about it ... I told him that ya'll voted on it and it's a law now ... he said let me check into it and he did and only then found out that the bill had been slipped through under the guise of a poaching bill so now he's working with us to get something done about it. the same day Representative Martin spoke with the director at ODWC they announced on the fishing notebook that they're dropping the requirement for the half million in insurance so that maybe they can head this off about filing the bill to make it specific to texoma only. ODWC didn't want it excluded to texoma only for some reason ... a reason that I would like to know why they don't want it to be just a texoma license when in fact it was only the texoma guides that asked for it. currently the texoma guides outnumber the rest of the guides in oklahoma about 3 to 1 ... that might also be the reason why the striper can't grow down on texoma... too many guides catching them out ... sometimes 3 to 4 trips each per day limiting out within a couple of hours and then go back to the dock and pick up another crew for about $500 for two hours ... that's 1.5 hours boating maybe and 30 minutes fishing ... most of the texoma guides caught their clients limit for them too. it's crazy to weed out the good guides in oklahoma and be left with nothing but the big money guides on texoma.
Mon Dec 07, 2009 8:09 pm
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